Listen to Alex Hauschild talk about Digital Asset Management
Transcript:
Henrik: This is Another DAM Podcast about Digital Asset Management. I’m Henrik de Gyor. Today I’m speaking with Alex Hauschild. Alex, how are you involved with Digital Asset Management?
Alex: I started out at UCSB Davidson Library working for Salvador Güereña. And he brought me on to do brochures and graphic arts and stuff for him and we hit it off up pretty good and during that time found out that a lot of my imaging experience from previous was what’s going to help him develop what was called a digital library at the time. And we did a couple of pilot projects and went from there and he encouraged me to get the… he tricked me into getting a library and information sciences degree and went from there. I ended up with the UCSB Art Museum doing architecture and design collections.
Worked with California digital library, developing some of their policy and content governance for the California Digital Library and Califas, which is basically a large multicultural archive online. And went from there. Around 2008, ended up going to…moved to Los Angeles, did a little trying to start my own publishing business for a while. They ended up with Motor Trend hot rod trying to save their archive and that was an amazing experience. And from there, just kept going through the entertainment industry, went to Dreamworks and from there Google.
Henrik: Alex, how does a multinational technology company use Digital Asset Management?
Alex: Well, that’s a crazy question. Basically, they use it in multiple different facets. There’s production pipelines. Might have heard the term creative value chains or creative value pipelines and these are basically the production from concept to final assets. And final assets actually can mean several different things. So they’re using Digital Asset Management all the way along the way and sometimes multiple case in multiple ways. They use it in project management and then they use it for distribution. I mean, the short answer is distribution in all cases. That’s what Digital Asset Management is all about. But depending on your user base, it depends on what that distribution is.
Henrik: Alex, What are the biggest challenges and successes you’ve seen with Digital Asset Management?
Alex: That is a question that has two different parts. What are the challenges and successes for me and what are the challenges and successes in the field. For the field, I think what we’re seeing is more of a transition or more of a user-friendly attitude towards content management basically blends brand awareness and brand control with Digital Asset Management. We kind of transitioned into that from content management systems and just being…. seeing the potential for being able to distribute out to multiple users and multiple ways. Especially with… for the web or specifically for the web. For myself, it’s been a long road, so I’ve gone from creating digital library… Digital Asset Management systems before we had a term for them. I used to think of them as digital libraries and then kind of evolving with the industry as it transitioned into, I think basically going into distribution and then getting mixed with legal and I think maybe the challenges and obstacles we faced are now that we’re able to provide organized sets of assets on a massive scale, how can we protect the legal at that point and what kind of interaction with legal and licensing do we want to take? Or we the gatekeepers, are we the organizers? That’s really the fundamentals of the industry right now I think is can we transition as librarians, gatekeepers into a communicative role where we basically are helping users determine whether or not just where something is, but whether or not they can use it, so user control is a big deal now.
Henrik: Alex, what advice would you like to share with DAM professionals and people aspiring to become DAM professionals?
Alex: I mean, depending on which aspect of the industry they want to go in, there’s a big difference between academic and tech…technology fields where I’m at. I would get to know the marketing production, the process of it from content creation, which is at the producer level, at the project manager level and get to know how that works and how those assets are transferred from concept to creatives to postproduction. There’s so many tie-ins from asset producers who are creating images and handing them off multiple ways. Those handoffs become the critical mass for any assets, like who’s getting it, when they’re getting it and those are the timelines that you were working with. I think that those are really the things I would pay attention to if I was starting out. Now it’s can I get more involved in marketing and can I understand the marketing world because they’re the ones really creating these asset banks, really just get to know marketing agencies and how agencies work. It really becomes more of a people process when you understand why and when things are being made.
Henrik de Gyor: This is Another DAM Podcast about Digital Asset Management. I’m Henrik de Gyor. Today I’m speaking with Alex Cabal. Alex, how are you?
Alex Cabal: Doing well, thank you.
Henrik de Gyor: Alex, how are you involved with Digital Asset Management?
Alex Cabal: So here at Make-A-Wish America, this is several years ago, we did not have anything at all. We just had a bunch of network drives. No labeling system, naming system of any kind. And so we were looking for a solution, specifically for our creative services department, but in doing so, we thought bigger. We are the national office for Make-A-Wish, so we thought we should probably find something that was an enterprise-wide solution. So we began a search, we narrowed it down, we selected our vendor, I’ve been a part of that entire process. So, and then once we’ve selected that vendor and implemented it. I’m also responsible for the administration and so that the upkeep basically.
Henrik de Gyor: Alex, how does an organization that grants the wish of critically ill children use Digital Asset Management?
Alex Cabal: Let me take a step back if I may. Just kind of describe how Make-A-Wish is setup. So I’m with Make-A-Wish America. We are the national office and we provide the structure and the guidance for all of our chapters of which there are 62 across the nation and our territories. The chapters are the ones that actually grant the wishes, so they’re the ones that hire the photographers, videographers. They write the stories for their local websites and such, and they’re the ones that gather all of the assets. At the national office, we have a bunch of designers and they’re the ones creating the collateral, you know, for a lot of our national campaigns, our national sponsors, etc. and they’re the ones that are actually looking for all of these assets. Since we do not grant the wishes ourselves, we rely on what the chapters provide to us and so we needed a mechanism for the chapters to get those assets to us.
And so our DAM system is a part of that. And so what happens is that the wishes are granted. Pictures are taken. The privacy of the wish kids is vital for us. So we’re big into publicity releases, restrictions, that kind of thing. So we structured our DAM system to include all of that information and to allow for attachments of those specific documents so we could see what our restrictions are in addition to all of the assets. The national office and Make-A-Wish in general, we are storytellers basically. We grant wishes for all of these kids across the country and we tell the stories behind those wishes. Not only do they include the wish kids, they also include the volunteers. Many volunteer at the chapter and they’re actually critical for the execution of these wishes. So they work hand in hand with the chapter, with the wish kids themselves, the families, etc.
But these volunteers also include limo drivers, maybe local carpenters, airport greeters, folks like that. So they’re all part of the storytelling. So in the past, we had a reporting style where we would take a story of a kid and you know, if the kid’s wish was to go skiing, we just kind of report what happened. But now we’re taking into account the perspectives of all of the folks involved with the wish. So that might be siblings, that might be the parents of the wish kid, that might be the limo driver or the truck driver or maybe it’s that person working at the ski shop and the example I just gave. So we’re looking at all those different perspectives because they all have a story to tell and when they tell those stories that it affects other people in their sphere and in their community.
So we’re reaching out and just trying to gather as much content and different points of view because everyone has a very specific take on things and we think that it’s very important to share that with the community at large. And then also there’s the donors. So we have donors, they [donate] $5, $10, etc. But we have a lot of also high-level donors where they donate thousands of dollars. So we’re also trying to capture what motivates them. And so a lot of these donors, they might have a relative, a neighbor, a friend that needs a wish. And so that drives them to help out and to be committed to the Make-A-Wish cause. So again, we try to capture those stories as well.
Henrik de Gyor: Alex, what are the biggest challenges and successes you’ve seen with Digital Asset Management?
Alex Cabal: With regard to struggles and Make-A-Wish America so I am a party of one and that is very similar to other companies were both for-profit and nonprofit where they might have a DAM department, but that probably constitutes one person, maybe two if they’re lucky. So I’m not any different in that regard. I think where I am different is that I have two major responsibilities with my position and DAM is the lesser of the two. I’m also responsible for our chapter website platform. It’s the platform that powers not only wish.org, which is the national website, but all of our chapter websites and so that takes up the majority of my time and I try to spend as much time as I can with DAM. I’m different than other DAM administrators and that I specifically don’t look at all of the content per se. I just make sure that the systems are running. I trust that the folks at the chapter, that they’re able to use the system and that we have the metadata structure and all the field setup in a way that they can effectively use the system in that the folks at the national office who are looking for these assets that they can get into the system and find what they’re looking for and use it.
So I’m kind of…I’m in the mix, but I’m not a heavy user. I just make sure everything works. And on our side, not only do our designers look for these assets because they’re looking for brochures, they are looking for signs or looking to create signs. Our social media team also uses the system because they’re always looking for new assets to share with our different constituents and so those are the two primary folks that use the system on a daily basis. Part of our struggles, and this kind of goes to how we are set up, we a federated system, so each of our 62 chapters are their own private 501(c)(3)s [nonprofit organization]. So yes, they are a part of the Make-A-Wish family, but they also have a, a certain level of independence from the national office so they can pretty much do their own thing within certain guidelines, of course. As part of that, you know, a lot of the chapters run a lean staff and some chapters might have like two people. You might run into another chapter where there might be 32 people and so it all varies and the person responsible at the chapter for accessing and utilizing this DAM system may also differ. In one chapter, it might be a marketing person. In another, it could be a communications person or in another, it could be a development or a finance person. So there are no steadfast rules. It just kind of…for each chapter the situation is a little different and more often than not, whoever is the more tech-savvy person is probably the person that gets saddled with the DAM responsibilities. So you know, because of that and because at a chapter, they are running lean. They wear multiple hats. They’re basically trying to get through the day, first and foremost for them is to make sure that wishes happen and they also have large events to which are big fundraising opportunities, so they’re trying to make sure that those two things go without a hitch. More often than not, working with a DAM is even though it’s a necessary function, it kinda gets pushed by the wayside a little bit and to be quite honest and that that’s been a big struggle and you combine that with the size of the chapters and the general lack of resources that nonprofits typically have. That’s kind of the meat of where we run into some issues.
Then there’s also the whole taxonomy thing. I come from the school where the more information there is, the better it is and try to be as specific as you can. What we’re finding out is that maybe that’s not the case. And I think in attending the past two DAM conferences in New York, in hearing feedback from other folks, they’re saying the same thing. And that being too specific could be a challenge. And that perhaps taking a step back and trying to be a little bit more vague in your categories or maybe all-encompassing would be a better idea. So I have to take a look at that and that’s one of the things that I’m doing this Summer is taking a look at our current DAM system and how it is set up with the metadata and all the taxonomy and trying to reconfigure that so that going into the Fall we’ve got a more streamlined version and it’ll help the adoption rate for those folks that yeah, they’re, they need to use the DAM system, but they might feel a little intimidated or it’s a little too cumbersome. Anything that I can do on my end to streamline that and to make it simpler for them, then I need to be doing that. So that’s a lot of the struggles that we typically have.
With successes, one of the cool things that we do is we use our DAM system as a collection vehicle for our annual calendar. So basically, we put a call out to chapters and we asked them to send us with stories and pictures of wish, kids they’d like to see profiled in our annual calendar. We probably get around 30 of those submissions each year. And so from that pool, our creative services team looks at all of those and then they determine which 12 kids get selected for the calendar. So we did a lot of excitement with that. We’re actually thinking of attaching some kind of reward system for folks that use the DAM system and to, you know, that gives us access to pictures for the submission.
So if we select one of their kids to be in the calendar, we make them some kind of an award. So that’s something that we’re thinking about and I think we’ll probably do this year. We also use our DAM as a collection mechanism for some of our large campaigns are Macy’s Believe campaign is one of our bigger ones, which occurs towards the holiday season of the year. And so we use that to gather images for the different Macy’s Believe events that occur across the chapters. So those have worked well. We’ve also connected our DAM to what we call our design studio, and that is basically a marketing portal, so if a chapter in its simplest form, if they want to order business cards with their logo, they can on a larger scale. If they wanted to create a sign for, let’s say a subway or a brochure or something like that. Basically, that system connects to the DAM and then they can pull hig- res images that belongs to their chapter and then they can utilize those.
We also allow for a sharing option so that chapters can share their assets with other chapters. Currently, by default, everything is based on a per chapter use, so our Arizona chapter of can only see Arizona content. Hudson Valley can only see Hudson Valley, etc. However, we do give each chapter the option on a per item basis to share those items. We have some chapters that are very eager to share because they collect great assets and they know some other chapters struggle with that, so they do what they can to make those available so that the enterprise as a whole can benefit. So those are some of the success stories that we’ve had with our DAM.
Henrik de Gyor: And what advice would like to share with DAM professionals and people are aspiring to become DAM professionals?
Alex Cabal: So with DAM professionals, if there’s anyone looking to select a DAM system that does not currently have one, my advice would be to get your IT team involved in the selection process and the planning and how the IT team will need to understand how this will work with their current infrastructure, you know, especially with permissions, if you deal with single sign-on, there are a lot of considerations there. So it’s important that IT is involved in that entire selection process more often than not they have a process in place for selecting vendors and all of that kind of stuff. So they’re very useful in the vetting process for that. It’s also important to sell the importance of a DAM if you don’t currently have one. I think most leadership probably don’t understand. They probably think, “oh, we can get a bunch of storage, a bunch of external drives, etc. It shouldn’t be that big of a problem” So you have to sell the key benefits of whatever system you’re looking at and how that could potentially benefit your organization and I would also advise to look further on down the road. Not in the immediate sense where, okay, in the short term you have storage, but in the long term, what does this mean? Are there other systems that you currently employ that may benefit from tapping into your DAM? So that’s something to look at too, and if you can find a connection that makes sense between those systems and if there’s a technology that exists that allows your DAM to connect with like Salesforce, for example, then that becomes a little bit of an easier sell. Another piece of advice for taxonomy, spent a lot of time figuring out what makes sense for the organization. What might make sense to the DAM administrator might not make sense to other folks. And I’m learning that by experience and so get those other parties in the room who are going to be the heavy users? Who are going to be the ones that are actually downloading? What are the types of terms that they’re going to be looking for? and that should help guide you in how you create the taxonomy for all, all of that information.
For aspiring professionals, a taxonomy and that was something that I didn’t think was going to be that big of a deal. I kind of took it for granted, but in actually going through the pains of realizing that what makes sense in my head doesn’t necessarily make sense in others heads. It’s a really good idea to understand how things are categorized. What makes sense. Be open to taking in input from other folks that probably organize differently than you. So that’s a big deal. For the students out there, if there are like library sciences, that probably will be a big help. I think the DAM community as a whole… this to me, and I’m relatively new to this, but this seems like an up and coming thing. I mean, this is what I’m gathering from the conferences that I’ve attended recently and talking with other folks… those of us that are in this community realized the importance of it. Those of us outside of it, although they might be touched by it, they don’t quite get it, and so it’s kind of our job to show the importance and how this can help benefit the organization. So take the time to learn about the taxonomy. If you’re a student, check into library sciences or organization, that’s a big thing. Networking, that’s a big deal. You’ll find other folks that with similar interests or are in similar situations and you could probably get some good advice from them and if you’re serious about becoming a DAM professional, don’t be surprised if you are going to be the only one doing that at whatever company you land at and it might be like that for a while. My gut is that even though people are starting to see or companies are starting to see the importance of this is might not be the highest priority for a lot of companies. So it might be a slow growth type of thing within just become familiar with the different systems that are out there and what’s available. So if you do land somewhere, you’re able to have some information. You may not be an expert in that particular system, but it’s not like you’re completely starting from scratch.
Henrik de Gyor: Well, thanks Alex.
Alex Cabal: Yeah, you’re welcome.
Henrik de Gyor: For more on this, visit Another DAM Podcast for over 200 episodes like this. If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to email me at anotherdamblog@gmail.com. Thanks again.
Henrik de Gyor: This is Another DAM Podcast about Digital Asset Management. I’m Henrik de Gyor. Today I’m speaking with Alice Cameron. Alice, how are you?
Alice Cameron: I am doing well, Henrik. How are you?
Henrik de Gyor: Great. Alice, how are you involved with Digital Asset Management?
Alice Cameron: So I got involved with Digital Asset Management kind of haphazardly. I did my undergraduate degree in history and couldn’t quite decide what to do with that. I had always enjoyed library and archives, so decided to transfer that into a Masters in Library and Information Science [MLIS] at Dominican University, which is out in River Forest, Illinois. And from there, I actually had really good luck in my internship and ended up interning with WFMT radio to work with their Studs Terkel radio archive. So we worked in transcribing a lot of those interviews and it really opened my eyes to the world of what librarianship meant. And then I think unlike most grad students, was very luckily offered a position at McDonald’s global headquarters the day after I graduated with their DAM system. So something that I had never really known existed turned into my career. And from there, I began my work at Northwestern University.
Alice Cameron: I currently run our Digital Asset Management system. I was brought on right before we signed with our vendor since we have over 36 marketing department alone and that’s outside of necessarily just regular schools and departments, each housing their own marketing content. It was very important that they had a centralized place where people were able to find what they needed and share what they needed, make sure it was stored properly. So it really went from the opposite that, that I am in, in global marketing, having this really incredible idea. And from there I implemented this system, I know run this system from day to day. There are a lot of different levels to have it. But my main approach and what encompasses all of it is kind of seeing the asset as a holistic life cycle and making sure that from creation to preservation we are handling the asset and the way that we should from beginning to end.
And now I’m also seeing, you know, we’re based that we can do that before the asset has even created. So, you know, when we’re scheduling photo shoots and things like that, making sure that for every step of the way, we’re doing all that we can to have it stored properly, to make sure that people are able to access what they need, to make sure that people cannot access what they’re supposed to and to use things in a way that are really going to help our brand, our help our university. So yeah, so a variety of different ways. I think as a DAM professionals see it.
Henrik de Gyor: Alice, How does a premier research university use Digital Asset Management?
Alice Cameron: So there are quite a few different ways. Really the most integral to us is, again, brand consistency. Making sure that, you know, since we do have so many different incredible institutions that we work with, having them all be able to access content immediately upon its creation and download it and use it in their marketing, in their presentations across the world. That’s really our main focus, for each of our schools, each of our departments and that encompasses all of our campuses. So since we are a universal university, we’re based in Qatar and we’re based in Evanston, in Chicago and also in San Francisco. So having a web platform where everybody can be on the same page, to make sure that our brand is being represented and the way that it should be is one of the best ways we can utilize the tool.
Henrik de Gyor: What are the biggest challenges and successes you’ve seen with Digital Asset Management?
Alice Cameron: Just overall, again, I think that most people in the field can relate to it. There are again, just a lot of silos in organizations. It really needs to come from the top down. Throughout my career, I have seen it just kind of taper off though. So people are very excited about having a DAM and then the onboarding doesn’t go properly or people just kind of get stuck in workflows. It’s not necessarily anybody’s fault, but the way that DAMs are brought into any institution or organization. I think it’s really integral for that to be kind of a focus for anything to happen with it. You know you can buy a big expense system and if you don’t have anybody running it properly and you don’t have your employees or staff, they don’t have the ability to access things that they need to.
It’s not going to be used and it’s just kind of going to be another system that they have that they pay for that that doesn’t necessarily work for them. I think with that as well, having the professionals in the field, DAM is, in a lot of ways, it’s very old and it’s very new. So having people that have the right skill set is vital. I’ve been really, really fortunate to be able to partner with two different ALA-accredited library schools, graduate schools and to use their incredible students to help us with our system and to also kind of open up conversations with other organizations who need a DAM Professional. You know, there’s no real like here’s a website, go to here’s a here’s a degree that I can take. Things are popping up definitely, but there’s not kind of a, a strong group that is mandating or showing, you know, these are the necessary qualifications.
As I said earlier, kind of coming into this with a, with a library background, I didn’t know DAM existed, you know, I didn’t really realize what my degree would lead me to and when I look at it now, Oh wow, you know, this Masters in Library and Information Sciences [MLIS] is really a Masters in DAM for me. They’re all focusing now on, on metadata and taxonomy and all of these very integral things. And at the end of the day it’s so much about storing, preserving, getting access to information that’s really the highlight of librarianship, of being an archivist and also being a DAM professional. So I think just seeing kind of the crossover since so many people come into the field in different ways. A lot of photographers. Graphic designers. It really kind of fans all over the place. But I think the lack of having, you know, like kind of a central professional organization that can say, “Hey, look, here are the necessary qualifications for these people that you’ll want” can be definitely hard to overcome.
And it also makes it harder to explain to people what kind of, what we do when it’s often people are hired for a specific job and it ends up becoming something that DAM is the project, but then they are pulled into a lot of different directions and the DAM often loses its integrity and its usefulness. So I think it gets better explaining what the field requires of people is very important and I’d like to see that grow again. I’ve been able to do that, you know, with the students and connecting them with different groups. I know like Henry Stewart DAM, things like that are really great ways to kind of promote what will we do and show people how useful and you know, cost-effective it really is to have everything in one place. But yeah, I think that the struggle is really kind of the onboarding and also again, just showing people what it is that we do.
Henrik de Gyor: And what advice would you like to share with DAM professionals and become aspiring DAM professionals?
Alice Cameron: I would definitely say not to plug librarianship too much, but a lot of these schools are transferring their program, the names like iSchool, you know, information school, because there is so much data out there and we need to figure out what to do with all of it. So my advice would be get a Masters in Library and Information Science and focus in on DAM. Then come and take a practicum or do an internship. I do think that that’s really useful. Also trying to find places to learn more from other professionals. So much of this is networking and talking to others in the field about what they do. I’m very lucky again to work at an incredible university that gives me the opportunity to talk to other professionals at other universities who are doing the same thing and we’re able to see what missteps are there. What can we do better? What areas are you working in that maybe we’re not utilizing that or not leveraging? So definitely for people who want to become DAM professionals, I would say just doing the research and finding out what I needed and also seeing things from, again, this kind of much higher level perspective of, you know, not getting stuck in editing metadata and things like that that are, that are very necessary and it’s so important, but seeing kind of the longterm goal of what we’re hoping to do with assets is vitally important.
Henrik de Gyor: Thanks Alice
Alice Cameron: You’re very welcome.
Henrik de Gyor: For more on this, visit anotherdampodcast.com for another 200 episodes and transcripts of the interviews. If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to email me at anotherdamblog@gmail.com. Thanks again.
Listen to Ron Gill discuss Digital Asset Management
Transcript:
Henrik de Gyor: This is Another DAM Podcast about Digital Asset Management. I’m Henrik de Gyor. Today I’m speaking with Ron Gill. Ron, how are you?
Ron Gill: Hey, how is it going, Henrik?
Henrik de Gyor: Good. Ron, how are you involved with Digital Asset Management?
Ron Gill: That’s a good question. Like lot of my colleagues, Digital Asset Management was something that you kind of wander into. So in my case, I started out as a graphic designer with a fine arts painting background and throughout my career as a graphic designer all the way up to art director, I was always involved with the management of large archives of assets, whether it be for the architectural firms that I was working for, the advertising firms that I was working for throughout the cycle. And this is before Digital Asset Management and even became a industry, let alone a descriptor for what it is that we do. It was a series of organizing and making these assets useful within the company. So as the tools got better and as the systems got more elaborate, I basically had a trial by fire, a learning experience from the ground up. It was learning about how these systems are being used and how I could best implement them in the company’s workflow. So as I progressed, I became more and more involved and roughly around 2008 I became more heavily vested in Digital Asset Management. I kind of a made that my focus over design. So that’s how I got involved in Digital Asset Management, in the Digital Asset Management space.
Henrik de Gyor: What are the biggest challenges and successes you’ve seen with Digital Asset Management?
Ron Gill: They are quite a few challenges. And there are also a number of successes that I’ve seen and I had. The challenges I think are, they’re varied actually. So silos, information stored in silos and teams not being up to cooperate with each other are some of the biggest challenges because in each, in each silo you have system, a subject matter experts that understand the content for their silos and they don’t necessarily communicate too well even though, for example, if you’re doing or you’re working for a marketing organization and the company is large enough so you’ll have different wings or different teams working on different aspects. They all might be doing different things, but in the same industry or sharing the same goal. So getting all these silos together is one of the biggest challenges and getting people to recognize that I think is the biggest challenge for Digital Asset Management. In the beginning, it’s getting a company sign on and higher-ups to pay for the system because it’s not something that you can get overnight.
Ron Gill: It’s not something that’s going to happen, you know, by pulling the software off the shelf and then plugging it into your system. It’s something that takes thorough investigation. It takes an understanding of how the company is using assets and it’s understanding the needs of the end user. So those are the biggest challenges that, I think in Digital Asset Management. Of course, there’s a number of splinter challenges that come up from that way, you know, adding metadata and who gets to add metadata, adoption, so on, so forth. In the beginning, the biggest challenge is getting everybody on board and understanding the baseline workflow that needs to happen inside the Digital Asset Management system.
Ron Gill: Now, so far, successes, successes wouldn’t be obviously getting that challenge, taking care of, so being able to find what the company would need in so far as their workflow is the biggest success I think you can have initially. Finding the system that is going to work for multiple teams and the system that will best make their output and workflow more efficient is the biggest success. Once you have a working DAM in place, those successes will come.
Henrik de Gyor: What advice would you like to share with DAM professionals and people aspiring to become DAM professionals?
Ron Gill: Advice I’d like to share with people aspiring to become professionals. There’s not too much information online or anything that you can glean through the Internet. There is some resources that you can, forums. I think Deb Fanslow has a great one, DAM Peeps. This is for non-vendors. It is a invite only Google group or forum and it’s a good resource that just came up. And it’s good to learn as much as you possibly can and there’s so many industries that DAM touches. So obviously going to big events like Henry Stewart or going to DAM Meetups will expose you to different areas, different industries. I mean I’m still talking to people that are also Digital Asset Managers, but I’ve never met before or I have, I didn’t know that industry was using DAM in that fashion. So getting out there and, and meeting new people and seeing how they’re using DAM to help their company and help their workflows is a vital resource. I mean, it’ll help you tremendously in, in what you’re doing and you’re trying to achieve.
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